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Location: The Brief
Discussion: Any thoughts
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 IainTait |
Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 5:27 AM EDT looking forward to hearing what you've got to say Do you find this valuable? |
 Roddyglen |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 5:47 AM EDT FYI (and from web) The dog licence in England was abolished in 1987. I believe it used to cost 37.5pence which is the same as the pre-decimal price of 7s 6d. Whilst in oppostion, Labour gave a commitment to introduce a dog registration system but ... [RG now:] One of the challenges would be to get more than just the 'responsible' owners to register. The Kennel Club will be no prob, but getting Mastiff Man will be how we'll know we've scored. I can see need for carrot AND stick. The dogs ought to be proud of their owners because they have registered - maybe a particular collar tag to say so? Penalties for not registering? Tricky, this (Outcry at "caught 3 times and we shoot your mutt" sort of stuff) Methods of detection? (Unlikely to be 'Detector Vans' unless all dogs chipped previously). Rewards for grassing up your neighbours? Do you find this valuable? |
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nickfell nickfell |
Objective 2
Apr 28 2008, 5:50 AM EDT Practice dog care and handling... BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7354547.stm Flexpets: http://www.flexpetz.com/ Do you find this valuable? |
 Marband |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:00 AM EDT Dangerous dog crimes on the rise: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5048800.stm "And there are cases where dogs are being used as weapons." "It's predominantly young people who walk around in groups, and I think the dog is a bit of a macho symbol, and the RSPCA's worry is that people get these dogs as a sexy image dog and they've got not idea what they've got hold of." Do you find this valuable? |
 neilma |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:03 AM EDT On the education side: a celebrity campaign involving obvious role models and their well-behaved mutts. If you want to get Mastiff Man then I would suggested encouraging Mastiff Man's favourite footballer (or, I don't know, WWF wrestler) to parade his own beloved and beautifully behaved mastiff. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 cherkoff |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:06 AM EDT The mainly young lads who have these dogs in Hackney, where I live, do not see them as dogs - but as protection. But not protection in the traditional sense where a dog is guarding a property. They are more like canine minders for when people are out and about in rough neighbourhoods. For many of these lads, the streets are like their own property - their turf. I saw an example of it action last week where a disagreement on the street between two lads, led to one setting his dog on the other. In fact, all that happened was that the dog chased the aggressor down the street then went back to his owner. It's fairly understandable if you live in an aggressive culture. The problem, to my mind, is when this idea of protection becomes more like the type of protection you might think you've got by carrying a knife. The meaner and badder the knife you carry the more protection you think you've got. But in the wrong situation or when things get out of hand the presence of that knife can escalate a situation very quickly and result in horrible injury - or death. The equivalent type of dog is one that has been bred to be more dangerous than others or treated badly to make it more menacing. For instance I've seen dogs being hung from trees in a public park to demonstrate the power of their jaws and wind them up. It's pretty disturbing if you are sitting there with friends and family - especially if there are any young children around. So I wonder a Dog Amnesty? Do you find this valuable? |
 dodonoghgm |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:07 AM EDT Hi Iain, Dogs are a pack animal and many dog owners do not realise that they are the 'Pack leader' and set the boundaries of the 'packs behaviour'. Segmenting dog owners ends up with about 8 segments worldwide and the 'dangerous one' is 'feed from table/feed butchers scraps' as this encourages 'scavenging/aggressive behaviour' in 'attack species'. Most dog owners unlike cat owners do not believe that their pet 'understands them' or is like a 'person'. There is now an automatic £200 fine for fouling and the owner not picking up.Maybe this could be linked to the licence,like points on a drivers licence.Equally dogs have to be 'under the control' of their owners on footpaths. The real problem with dogs is that some breeds are dangerous if the 'pack mentality' is either unknown to the owner or if the owner encourages bad behaviour. Best of luck, Dan. Do you find this valuable? |
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dodonoghgm |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:12 AM EDT One other thought is about pet insurance.Maybe this could be linked to the register to get a discount/or if not registered insurance is more expensive. Do you find this valuable? |
 adamcrowe |
RE: Objective 2
Apr 28 2008, 6:26 AM EDT Gosh, that Flexpetz is a bit.... surely there's a difference between a pet and a toy. But they do raise a good point about the therapeutic benefits of being with a dog, caring for a dog. Everyone likes dogs, or should do. I don't like the simple binary set-up of this license: You're either licensed or not. Immediately as the license is suggested it stigmatizes those without it. Why not simply gift every dog-owner a standard license? ("A gift to man from all dog kind.")That would afford the construction of a register complete with free GPS collar tags as suggested by Roddy above. I would prefer the experience of being 'licensed' to be more gradual like earning your swimming certificates. You start by saying you *can* swim then it's a matter of getting better at it and being able to boast about your new skills as you earn them. It should be the same with a dogs owners license so as to provide an easy on-ramp to more skill earning services. And these services can include all sorts. Who wouldn't want to boast about their dog having recently passed the registered guide-dog's qualification? It says something about the owner. Status skills and all that. It's the degree to which dog owners already 'use' their status as dog-owners, both in terms of their relationship with their dog itself and socially, that needs more investigation. It is surely a rich area for a proper ethnographic study. Do you find this valuable? |
 thenausner |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:40 AM EDT Half an hour lunch break, let me see what I can get: http://www.dogfriendlybritain.co.uk/ http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/ Good Citizen Dog Scheme: (larget dog training sheme in the UK) http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activities/good_citizen.html Prominent spokesdog: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Htb4MvEmoAk Youtubechannel: http://uk.youtube.com/user/thekennelclub "A trained dog is a happy dog. They are more relaxed and everything." How well disciplined do you want your dog? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=503870&in_page_id=1811 Lots of bad dog behavior here: http://faildogs.com/ 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 Grimble |
RE: Objective 2
Apr 28 2008, 6:40 AM EDT How about a percentage of the fee going to dogs homes and rspca to ensure strays and seized dogs are retrained and rehomed. Most dog owners hate the idea of strays and removed dogs might end up like this. Recruiting dogs to the register could happen at all vets surgeries, when innoculations and chips happen as puppies - this could be an "opt out" rather than "opt in" scheme Do you find this valuable? |
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thenausner |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:43 AM EDT Good dogs http://ihasahotdog.com/ Do you find this valuable? |
 dansolo |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:43 AM EDT Agree with all above. The tricky bit is owners who don't want to be registered/identified for obvious reasons, fear of being tracked etc..and these are probably the more problematic dogs/owners (they're quite similar no?, the ones I see) - agressive, antisocial, don't clean up etc. The terms 'licence' in itself is potentially a bit of a barrier. Potentially something softer and bit more bling could help - passport, customisable id card etc could help make it more interesting to this difficult audience.. Bundle a collar/lead with http://www.dogbling.co.uk/ when a dog is registered. Do you find this valuable? |
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Roddyglen |
RE: Objective 2
Apr 28 2008, 6:50 AM EDT I agree Adam - the Flexpet thing looks so much like damage to dogs' psychological wellbeing. I wondered if the BBC story was a hoax. As one comment below it said - all the benefits of dog ownership and none of the responsibilities (eg commitment) - what kind of example is that to a child? Like your idea of a skills ladder - effectively the opposite of the above (lack of) relationship with resonsibility/commitment. We need to make people WANT to join the scheme, and not just by punishing them if they don't (or indeed by giving THEM the tenner). All the best, Roddy Do you find this valuable? |
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thenausner |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:57 AM EDT http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=562025&in_page_id=1811 Switzerland passed regulation recently. Check out the comments. People divide into: Pro: Pet lovers who care and support it because it will ensure that dogs are better treated. Pro: Pet haters who believe that this will help control dogs. Contra: "Nice to see that Big Brother is alive and well in Switzerland. Just out of curiosity, do people have pass courses in order to have children?" People who dont to be told how to treat their dog, or messed with in their affairs generally. The problem here really are owners. Dogs, more specific: problem dogs are a result of their owners. Could be they: 1. Want their dogs agressive and intimidating. See post above. That is impossible to change. However, a training dog is able to keep their owner out of trouble i.e. know when to stop or stop when told. Srsly, if you want your dog as a weapon, training will keep you out of trouble. 2. Rest don't know better. Make mistakes when treating the animal. And are embarassed when something happens, but assume thats the normal thing. 3. Believe they are doing it right. Dont want anyone mess with their business, becaise their control of the dog is one of the few relationships where they can have the power. (am I leaning out too far with this?) Do you find this valuable? |
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stevestokes stevestokes |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 6:59 AM EDT There's likely to be a significant backlash from a number of "good" dog owners - another instance of the "good" majority having to lose out (and fork out) because of the few bad guys in an era of a "nanny state". To get this new initiative working it needs these majority on board, right from the start. The most obvious is to appeal to them on an emotional level as dog lovers - by opposing this initiative they are risking the lives and welfare of innocent dogs who live in unfortunate circumstances that they don't choose themselves.. Another alternative is to turn this into something that Dog owners are proud to have passed? This could include receicing something tangible to show others such as a ribbon / badge that can be attached to the dog's collar. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
 ollesvensson |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 7:03 AM EDT Let's not forget that it's not just owners using pets like protection. It's also not caring enough for the dog. Not taking it to the vet when needed (fleas and stuff). I've seen numerous animal vet shows on this; people not knowing HOW to treat a dog, about its needs etc. A license issuing is a way to train in this, as well as meeting the owners and getting a feel for who they are and why they got a dog. Do you find this valuable? |
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IainTait |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 7:07 AM EDT Thank you all so much for all this. None of us here are dog owners so we're struggling a little bit with some logistical stuff. How often do most normal people have to visit a vet? Any ideas? Cheers iain Do you find this valuable? |
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thenausner |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 7:11 AM EDT How much of this can be connected to insurance? If my dog injures someone and doesnt have the tag... I am fully eligible. But realistically, that does not stop anyone. In a comment I found someone pointed out the difference betweeen a pet dog and, say, a guard dog. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080125074716AAqKbbo&show=7 , last comment) They should be differently adressed by law and by the dog registry. (requiring different training, upgrading the value of the dog when thinking about those Hackney types mentioned earlier) Maybe that is a way: split between pet dogs, safety dogs and guard dogs. Of course, the problem dogs would be in that guard dog, safety dog field. How much value could a "I AM A GUARD DOG. I WILL GUARD MY MASTER. NO MORE NO LESS." in have that social context ? Both a sign to those you to protect yourself from, and to your peers that you are in control and responsible. Do you find this valuable? |
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Marband |
RE: Any thoughts
Apr 28 2008, 7:11 AM EDT I like Adam's idea about earning certificates. It might work even to set apart irresponsible owners. - If you register you receive a collar with a red pendant (something like "My dog is not a Gun") - Collar will have an easily detectable pendant with your id number - Subscription will allow you to join a "dog-owners academy" - For every exam you pass you receive a star for your collar Irresponsible owner will probably refuse to register. Not having the collar/pendant will be a sort of a warning for the population and the police (prevention). Police might even help compiling a Dark Register, reporting "irresponsible dog owners" Registering to the program deletes the name from the list Do you find this valuable? |